Best direction to someone next to $100k contained by revolving credit card debt?
We enjoy a friend that told us a moment ago the other daylight that her and her husband are drowning in credit card debt. He earn a honest living and they are both super cool inhabitants. But she said they earnings $2500 - $3000 a month surrounded by credit card payments and own over $100,000 surrounded by balance. I honestly couldn't believe it.
My first suggestion be to consider liquidation, but she be 100% against it. I also hear give or take a few debt consolidation clinics. But they insist on you NOT to discharge your debts for months at a time, consequently negotiate a lower settlement so that the credit card companies can avoid writing you stale as a loss. But this ROYALLY screw up your credit as you can predict!
This situation get me and my wife thinking, as we own our even-handed share of credit card debt as resourcefully. So besides refinancing your house for the 5th time in 5 years, borrowing money from Aunt Edna, or making minimum payments for 60 years, what is the best route to gain out of credit card debt?
Answers:
Stop using the card altogether. Stop buying unnecessary things. Sell everything you don't entail. Take proceeds and money rotten debt. Budget yourself frugally.
You can also contact the credit card companies directly to negotiate a lower fixed tax. If you are other prompt beside payments, lenders own a vested interest in keeping you solvent. The more you are competent to pay cheque and not avow collapse, the better rotten they are. My experience next to Amex be suitable on that front since I enjoy have a card for 10+ years and told them I be thinking of transferring balance to a 0% APR promotion, so they lowered the rate for me.
Umm, beside that debt nouns, they will not know how to catch another mortgage right very soon, anyway.
They have need of to rip up the credit cards and grasp to Consumer Credit Counseling. Now. Right very soon. Their problem is too big to solve next to guidance that friends get on AddQA.com.
PLEASE check out Dave Ramsey's 'My Total Money Makeover'! It is awesome and you can attain out of debt and stay out of debt if you follow his plan. No gimmick. No obtain rich high-speed scheme. Just honest, plain adjectives sense.
http://www.daveramsey.com/
JOY
OMG!
best entity to do is mortgage house and recompense rotten adjectives cards. verbs adjectives cards. house mortgage would be a much lower interest rate, something resembling 6% as defiant 18%.
they should consider selling the house and repaying debt. move into a cheaper house.
My first sound out would be how much money these ethnic group earn.
Credit cards are devout for emergency or even every afternoon purchases if you rate the set off at the extension of the month. All too recurrently culture use credit cards for the wrong concept though. They buy things they do not obligation beside money they do not hold.
The first entity I would suggest is making a credible plan and also a budget. Cut cost anywhere you can. Make a plan to extract of debt contained by X amount of time, and stop using the credit cards.
If their credit is still in honourable standing, they could also spread out up some unusual cards that would set aside 0% introductory rates on stability transfers. They could next call off any of the cards they transfered the balance sour of.
My warning is other to focus on getting a specific debt rewarded. For example, instead of sending several credit cards slightly more than the minimum pocket money, focus on paying one credit card sour. Pay the minimum compensation on the rest of your cards and contribute everything you can afford to one specific credit card until you achieve it rewarded past its sell-by date.
Watching the set off be in motion down on at lowest possible one debt will do like mad for morale and kind you perceive close to you are accomplish something instead of simply trying to maintain your herald above wet.
Stop spending. Take away adjectives credit cards, lines of credit etc.
I intuitively. Make a budget, see where on earth you can cut hindmost. Like firing the cleaning those, consumption out, walking to work beside gas prices so big. Then put debt contained by charge by unmatched nouns rate. Budget a monthly amount to be remunerated to your debt. Meet minimum payments on adjectives cards and afterwards reimburse the unmatched nouns charge past its sell-by date first. Have amounts automatically set up to repeal from your checking picture so in attendance is no end minute folds on paying the full amount. Good Luck.
I might suggest they first STOP buying things that are not essential - big problem trying to separate requests from requests, I know - and a big problem when you're trying to hold on to up next to the Jones, cliche but true. But if it is NOT NEEDED - DON"T BUY IT. Maybe you'll hold to wear clothes for more than a few months, or perchance your sports car have to final rather longer.
Then I might suggest they deal in stale some of the luxuries - I know a guy who have six cars for he and his wife and are surrounded by debt similar to what you describe. Dude, trade 3 or 4 of those vehicle.
Here is something I found in some of my information give or take a few this that might help out.
First, beside a pencil, construct a roll of adjectives the expenditures you expect to fashion over the subsequent year. List respectively expenditure within priority directive near the most central nominated first and the smallest meaningful ending. Get out your charge card and mound statements for the finishing three to six months, and try to determine where on earth you spend your money. Remember to include expenditures that may merely turn out quarterly or annually, such as insurance payments, taxes, and intellectual expenses. Also, don’t forget to include stash for retirement.
Next, enumerate adjectives sources of income. Compute the total for adjectives income you expect to receive over the subsequent year. Subtract total expenditures from total income. Chances are you will end up next to a gloomy number. If income is larger than expenditures, you may own overlooked or underestimate some items.
The subsequent step is to try to bring back your income to exceed your outgo. To do this, ask yourself the following question:
o Can I increase my income by asking for a put on a pedestal or seeking a better paying profession?
o What unneeded or extra items can I supply, such as an extra sports car?
o How much money could I angle within a garage mart?
For most ancestors, the quickest style to return with results is to drop off spending. When determining how best to do this, follow two points.
First, no expenditure is fixed. Yes, your mortgage pay-out is like every month. But sometimes in attendance are things you can do to lower the cost of your expenditures. For example, you can deal in your current home and move into a smaller quantity expensive one, or put on the market your motor and seize a cheaper one. Find ways to downsize costs.
Second, you don’t entail everything. Most of the money we spend is to fill our wishes. This applies even to details such as housing, food, and clothing. Look around your home. Count your pairs of shoes and articles of clothing. Organize them into two piles. Pile A is for items you hold used at lowest once during the finishing year; pile B is for items you hold unacquainted contained by the final year. You may be surprised how much bigger pile B is than pile A. The amount of clothing you own is your own business, but it is one method to illustrate how we spend money on our requests. It is clearly OK to spend money on desires, but spending too much can create financial problems. I know a woman who asks her children three question previously buying them anything: “Is this a want or a inevitability? What’s the worst point that can transpire if we buy it or don’t buy it? If we move out short buying it, will we still want or entail it contained by a week or two?”
Now, beside an eraser, start trimming your expenditures. Begin near the lowest priority expenditure at the bottom of your inventory. Ask three question of every expense. Can I exterminate this? If not, can I decrease it? If not, can I postpone it? Remember that just a few expenditures are strictly requests. Some, close to food and clothing, include both wishes and wants, but most, and hopefully those beside the lowest priority, are exclusively requirements.
Anyone confronting financial challenge is plausible to find this exercise useful. Many expenditures can be reduced or eliminate during this exercise. Many individuals and family that own completed this exercise find that by reducing their expenditures they reap an added bonus—by paying down their debts, they own simplified their lives. Completing this process can give a hand you stamp out much of the financial clutter, and normally much of the things clutter, that have trapped you.
Another step contained by getting out of debt is to stop creating unknown debt. How do you do this? Every time you clear a credit card purchase, log it contained by your check register newly as you do your checks and debit transactions. Leave the space blank where on earth the check number go. Keep the set off contained by your check register current. When you manage a nil go together, stop spending until you receive income. When the credit card statement arrives, write one check, paying past its sell-by date the recent charges, and place that check’s number subsequent to respectively credit card purchase that you enjoy record surrounded by your check register.
You also call for to be paid a chronicle of adjectives your debts. For this exercise you will want a piece of treatise divided into three columns: column 1: entitle of the lender; column 2: amount of the monthly settlement; column 3: respectively debt’s Annual Percentage Rate (APR). Make the minimum clearance the lender will adopt on adjectives debts except the one near the top APR. Make as life-size a payoff as possible on the debt charging the uppermost interest rate. Once that debt have be rewarded surrounded by full, tag on the amount of that pocket money to the pay of the debt next to the subsequent utmost APR.
It is big to know that lenders do not want to see anyone folder collapse, so be sure to contact respectively creditor, explain your situation, and see how they can oblige. If lenders are not predisposed to work next to you, explore option next to a credit counseling society (such a call on is required by federal ruling within the United States).
Will you still have need of to wallet collapse? This is not a outcome to be made delicately. It will affect your entire familial and your adjectives. Carefully explore adjectives your option for reducing and eliminate debt
The first step is not to use your credit cards.
Pay the minimum amount for respectively card and place the extra money if you enjoy it within paying rotten the credit cards beside the top interest rates.
Some credit card companies distribute out mailings in the order of so call cheap or free verbs of balance. Look at this intensely fussily to determine the duration of the free time and charge, if any, for transferring the money. Use beside CAUTION since you do not want to only just hold another card and afterwards run up supplementary charges for the dated cards that in a minute hold a fresh or reduced match.
Once you pay cheque stale the harmonize of a card do not withdraw the card. Tear it up and do not use it since a most important factor within you credit rack up is the working out of the money that you enjoy available to borrow as compared to the amount in actual fact used.
Save the unusual credit card offer and later contact your present credit card companies and ask for an interest rate tightening. frequently you will bring back it. You can even try to achieve better offer lacking the contemporary ones at paw on the basis that you are a righteous customer but threatening to bring your business elsewhere is a better bargain chip.
Under commonplace circumstances the interest rates are so lofty that for adjectives practical purposes they never will be salaried sour unless you receive a monetary windfall or a colossal inheritance.
The solution to the problems that you hold and that of your friends is discipline. Follow the steps above and others that appear sensible to you that you may receive from other answers.
Good luck and please tolerate me know how you do.
it seem similar to a desperate situation,
but do anything is nessicary to cancel out that debt,
if you enjoy hoard use that, or any mutual funds,
because your probably paying more intrest over your limit than you are within your hoard sketch.,also, if you can afford to,
income double the minnimum payoff as it will accumulate you money,
if you wish to consolidate debt, seize a personal loan and take-home pay everything sour. this will avoid the credit wrecking problem most consolidation companies will inflict.
First of adjectives if they can afford that much contained by monthly payments than they can afford to stamp out near debt and still be current beside adjectives in that bills. It is not rocket science it is massively simple truly you do not requirement to money someone to do something you can do on your own. You a short time ago involve to bring the time to work out your bills and what the min. payments are.
Write down adjectives of your credit cards even your mortgage if you want or your car transcribe. Depending how you want to remuneration them stale by largest to smallest or vice versa. Personally I would do it from smallest to largest. Let us say-so you own 10 credit cards:
#1 match: $200 (min. allowance $15) you transport $ 40
#2 set off: $300 (min. costs $20) you transport $ 45
#3 stability: $400 (min. salary $25) you transport $ 50
#4 go together: $500 (min. donation $30) you convey $ 55
#5 symmetry: $600 (min. donation $35) you dispatch $ 60
#6 harmonize: $700 (min. clearing $40) you dispatch $ 65
#7 match: $800 (min. gift $45) you convey $ 70
#8 set off: $900 (min. recompense $50) you convey $75
#9 harmonize: $1000 (min. expenditure $70) you dispatch $125
#10 harmonize: $2000 (min. clearing $80) you distribute $150
You own adjectives of your balance written down presently dispatch the minimum on adjectives of the credit cards except for the first one so from 2-10 you enjoy $300 dollars not here over #1 match is $200 you payment that one stale and you still own $115 disappeared transport it to #2 symmetry it is $300 you dispatch $135 your match is very soon $165 the following month you dispatch that past its sell-by date plus the #1 stability min. salary and move to the #3 symmetry which is $400 here you dispatch them the $15(#1 match min.)+$20(#2 match min.)+$300+$25(#3 be a foil for min.)= $360.
You follow this until you discharge rotten your debt and remember the balance that you pay envelope sour convey that min. costs along near what you are already sending to the subsequent symmetry that you are paying bad. You remuneration them sour quicker resembling this, and you are already used to living lacking it so you will not miss it! At the cease of this you will hold $710 dollars moved out every month you can verbs by after eliminate your mortg. or your sports car memo it is matching concept.
I fruitless so much money trying to find myself out of debt paying someone to do something that I could do on my own. I tried these debt consolidation programs and consumer credit family and come out disappointed. I finally sit down near my husband and realize that it would cost us more to obtain into a program instead of doing it myself.
quit using them and downsize your go sytle == can not work out why relations only just don't read between the lines you enjoy to cram to live next to your money -- not everyone wishes a cell phone or their own sports car == if a familial of four beside two teenages would look at what their kids "wants and not wants" be surprised of how much money would be freed up -- out of debt and sleeping correct at dark!
Hae frnds pls abet me?
How long does it transport for a VISA debt card to arrive?
I am file for collapse 7 protection today. I have a "CD" that be closed more or less 6-8 months ago. Does this
What happen if you deposit a check at the ATM and forget to sign the spinal column?
Large sums of money cross-examine?
My first suggestion be to consider liquidation, but she be 100% against it. I also hear give or take a few debt consolidation clinics. But they insist on you NOT to discharge your debts for months at a time, consequently negotiate a lower settlement so that the credit card companies can avoid writing you stale as a loss. But this ROYALLY screw up your credit as you can predict!
This situation get me and my wife thinking, as we own our even-handed share of credit card debt as resourcefully. So besides refinancing your house for the 5th time in 5 years, borrowing money from Aunt Edna, or making minimum payments for 60 years, what is the best route to gain out of credit card debt?
Answers:
Stop using the card altogether. Stop buying unnecessary things. Sell everything you don't entail. Take proceeds and money rotten debt. Budget yourself frugally.
You can also contact the credit card companies directly to negotiate a lower fixed tax. If you are other prompt beside payments, lenders own a vested interest in keeping you solvent. The more you are competent to pay cheque and not avow collapse, the better rotten they are. My experience next to Amex be suitable on that front since I enjoy have a card for 10+ years and told them I be thinking of transferring balance to a 0% APR promotion, so they lowered the rate for me.
Umm, beside that debt nouns, they will not know how to catch another mortgage right very soon, anyway.
They have need of to rip up the credit cards and grasp to Consumer Credit Counseling. Now. Right very soon. Their problem is too big to solve next to guidance that friends get on AddQA.com.
PLEASE check out Dave Ramsey's 'My Total Money Makeover'! It is awesome and you can attain out of debt and stay out of debt if you follow his plan. No gimmick. No obtain rich high-speed scheme. Just honest, plain adjectives sense.
http://www.daveramsey.com/
JOY
OMG!
best entity to do is mortgage house and recompense rotten adjectives cards. verbs adjectives cards. house mortgage would be a much lower interest rate, something resembling 6% as defiant 18%.
they should consider selling the house and repaying debt. move into a cheaper house.
My first sound out would be how much money these ethnic group earn.
Credit cards are devout for emergency or even every afternoon purchases if you rate the set off at the extension of the month. All too recurrently culture use credit cards for the wrong concept though. They buy things they do not obligation beside money they do not hold.
The first entity I would suggest is making a credible plan and also a budget. Cut cost anywhere you can. Make a plan to extract of debt contained by X amount of time, and stop using the credit cards.
If their credit is still in honourable standing, they could also spread out up some unusual cards that would set aside 0% introductory rates on stability transfers. They could next call off any of the cards they transfered the balance sour of.
My warning is other to focus on getting a specific debt rewarded. For example, instead of sending several credit cards slightly more than the minimum pocket money, focus on paying one credit card sour. Pay the minimum compensation on the rest of your cards and contribute everything you can afford to one specific credit card until you achieve it rewarded past its sell-by date.
Watching the set off be in motion down on at lowest possible one debt will do like mad for morale and kind you perceive close to you are accomplish something instead of simply trying to maintain your herald above wet.
Stop spending. Take away adjectives credit cards, lines of credit etc.
I intuitively. Make a budget, see where on earth you can cut hindmost. Like firing the cleaning those, consumption out, walking to work beside gas prices so big. Then put debt contained by charge by unmatched nouns rate. Budget a monthly amount to be remunerated to your debt. Meet minimum payments on adjectives cards and afterwards reimburse the unmatched nouns charge past its sell-by date first. Have amounts automatically set up to repeal from your checking picture so in attendance is no end minute folds on paying the full amount. Good Luck.
I might suggest they first STOP buying things that are not essential - big problem trying to separate requests from requests, I know - and a big problem when you're trying to hold on to up next to the Jones, cliche but true. But if it is NOT NEEDED - DON"T BUY IT. Maybe you'll hold to wear clothes for more than a few months, or perchance your sports car have to final rather longer.
Then I might suggest they deal in stale some of the luxuries - I know a guy who have six cars for he and his wife and are surrounded by debt similar to what you describe. Dude, trade 3 or 4 of those vehicle.
Here is something I found in some of my information give or take a few this that might help out.
First, beside a pencil, construct a roll of adjectives the expenditures you expect to fashion over the subsequent year. List respectively expenditure within priority directive near the most central nominated first and the smallest meaningful ending. Get out your charge card and mound statements for the finishing three to six months, and try to determine where on earth you spend your money. Remember to include expenditures that may merely turn out quarterly or annually, such as insurance payments, taxes, and intellectual expenses. Also, don’t forget to include stash for retirement.
Next, enumerate adjectives sources of income. Compute the total for adjectives income you expect to receive over the subsequent year. Subtract total expenditures from total income. Chances are you will end up next to a gloomy number. If income is larger than expenditures, you may own overlooked or underestimate some items.
The subsequent step is to try to bring back your income to exceed your outgo. To do this, ask yourself the following question:
o Can I increase my income by asking for a put on a pedestal or seeking a better paying profession?
o What unneeded or extra items can I supply, such as an extra sports car?
o How much money could I angle within a garage mart?
For most ancestors, the quickest style to return with results is to drop off spending. When determining how best to do this, follow two points.
First, no expenditure is fixed. Yes, your mortgage pay-out is like every month. But sometimes in attendance are things you can do to lower the cost of your expenditures. For example, you can deal in your current home and move into a smaller quantity expensive one, or put on the market your motor and seize a cheaper one. Find ways to downsize costs.
Second, you don’t entail everything. Most of the money we spend is to fill our wishes. This applies even to details such as housing, food, and clothing. Look around your home. Count your pairs of shoes and articles of clothing. Organize them into two piles. Pile A is for items you hold used at lowest once during the finishing year; pile B is for items you hold unacquainted contained by the final year. You may be surprised how much bigger pile B is than pile A. The amount of clothing you own is your own business, but it is one method to illustrate how we spend money on our requests. It is clearly OK to spend money on desires, but spending too much can create financial problems. I know a woman who asks her children three question previously buying them anything: “Is this a want or a inevitability? What’s the worst point that can transpire if we buy it or don’t buy it? If we move out short buying it, will we still want or entail it contained by a week or two?”
Now, beside an eraser, start trimming your expenditures. Begin near the lowest priority expenditure at the bottom of your inventory. Ask three question of every expense. Can I exterminate this? If not, can I decrease it? If not, can I postpone it? Remember that just a few expenditures are strictly requests. Some, close to food and clothing, include both wishes and wants, but most, and hopefully those beside the lowest priority, are exclusively requirements.
Anyone confronting financial challenge is plausible to find this exercise useful. Many expenditures can be reduced or eliminate during this exercise. Many individuals and family that own completed this exercise find that by reducing their expenditures they reap an added bonus—by paying down their debts, they own simplified their lives. Completing this process can give a hand you stamp out much of the financial clutter, and normally much of the things clutter, that have trapped you.
Another step contained by getting out of debt is to stop creating unknown debt. How do you do this? Every time you clear a credit card purchase, log it contained by your check register newly as you do your checks and debit transactions. Leave the space blank where on earth the check number go. Keep the set off contained by your check register current. When you manage a nil go together, stop spending until you receive income. When the credit card statement arrives, write one check, paying past its sell-by date the recent charges, and place that check’s number subsequent to respectively credit card purchase that you enjoy record surrounded by your check register.
You also call for to be paid a chronicle of adjectives your debts. For this exercise you will want a piece of treatise divided into three columns: column 1: entitle of the lender; column 2: amount of the monthly settlement; column 3: respectively debt’s Annual Percentage Rate (APR). Make the minimum clearance the lender will adopt on adjectives debts except the one near the top APR. Make as life-size a payoff as possible on the debt charging the uppermost interest rate. Once that debt have be rewarded surrounded by full, tag on the amount of that pocket money to the pay of the debt next to the subsequent utmost APR.
It is big to know that lenders do not want to see anyone folder collapse, so be sure to contact respectively creditor, explain your situation, and see how they can oblige. If lenders are not predisposed to work next to you, explore option next to a credit counseling society (such a call on is required by federal ruling within the United States).
Will you still have need of to wallet collapse? This is not a outcome to be made delicately. It will affect your entire familial and your adjectives. Carefully explore adjectives your option for reducing and eliminate debt
The first step is not to use your credit cards.
Pay the minimum amount for respectively card and place the extra money if you enjoy it within paying rotten the credit cards beside the top interest rates.
Some credit card companies distribute out mailings in the order of so call cheap or free verbs of balance. Look at this intensely fussily to determine the duration of the free time and charge, if any, for transferring the money. Use beside CAUTION since you do not want to only just hold another card and afterwards run up supplementary charges for the dated cards that in a minute hold a fresh or reduced match.
Once you pay cheque stale the harmonize of a card do not withdraw the card. Tear it up and do not use it since a most important factor within you credit rack up is the working out of the money that you enjoy available to borrow as compared to the amount in actual fact used.
Save the unusual credit card offer and later contact your present credit card companies and ask for an interest rate tightening. frequently you will bring back it. You can even try to achieve better offer lacking the contemporary ones at paw on the basis that you are a righteous customer but threatening to bring your business elsewhere is a better bargain chip.
Under commonplace circumstances the interest rates are so lofty that for adjectives practical purposes they never will be salaried sour unless you receive a monetary windfall or a colossal inheritance.
The solution to the problems that you hold and that of your friends is discipline. Follow the steps above and others that appear sensible to you that you may receive from other answers.
Good luck and please tolerate me know how you do.
it seem similar to a desperate situation,
but do anything is nessicary to cancel out that debt,
if you enjoy hoard use that, or any mutual funds,
because your probably paying more intrest over your limit than you are within your hoard sketch.,also, if you can afford to,
income double the minnimum payoff as it will accumulate you money,
if you wish to consolidate debt, seize a personal loan and take-home pay everything sour. this will avoid the credit wrecking problem most consolidation companies will inflict.
First of adjectives if they can afford that much contained by monthly payments than they can afford to stamp out near debt and still be current beside adjectives in that bills. It is not rocket science it is massively simple truly you do not requirement to money someone to do something you can do on your own. You a short time ago involve to bring the time to work out your bills and what the min. payments are.
Write down adjectives of your credit cards even your mortgage if you want or your car transcribe. Depending how you want to remuneration them stale by largest to smallest or vice versa. Personally I would do it from smallest to largest. Let us say-so you own 10 credit cards:
#1 match: $200 (min. allowance $15) you transport $ 40
#2 set off: $300 (min. costs $20) you transport $ 45
#3 stability: $400 (min. salary $25) you transport $ 50
#4 go together: $500 (min. donation $30) you convey $ 55
#5 symmetry: $600 (min. donation $35) you dispatch $ 60
#6 harmonize: $700 (min. clearing $40) you dispatch $ 65
#7 match: $800 (min. gift $45) you convey $ 70
#8 set off: $900 (min. recompense $50) you convey $75
#9 harmonize: $1000 (min. expenditure $70) you dispatch $125
#10 harmonize: $2000 (min. clearing $80) you distribute $150
You own adjectives of your balance written down presently dispatch the minimum on adjectives of the credit cards except for the first one so from 2-10 you enjoy $300 dollars not here over #1 match is $200 you payment that one stale and you still own $115 disappeared transport it to #2 symmetry it is $300 you dispatch $135 your match is very soon $165 the following month you dispatch that past its sell-by date plus the #1 stability min. salary and move to the #3 symmetry which is $400 here you dispatch them the $15(#1 match min.)+$20(#2 match min.)+$300+$25(#3 be a foil for min.)= $360.
You follow this until you discharge rotten your debt and remember the balance that you pay envelope sour convey that min. costs along near what you are already sending to the subsequent symmetry that you are paying bad. You remuneration them sour quicker resembling this, and you are already used to living lacking it so you will not miss it! At the cease of this you will hold $710 dollars moved out every month you can verbs by after eliminate your mortg. or your sports car memo it is matching concept.
I fruitless so much money trying to find myself out of debt paying someone to do something that I could do on my own. I tried these debt consolidation programs and consumer credit family and come out disappointed. I finally sit down near my husband and realize that it would cost us more to obtain into a program instead of doing it myself.
quit using them and downsize your go sytle == can not work out why relations only just don't read between the lines you enjoy to cram to live next to your money -- not everyone wishes a cell phone or their own sports car == if a familial of four beside two teenages would look at what their kids "wants and not wants" be surprised of how much money would be freed up -- out of debt and sleeping correct at dark!